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Comments on: David Benatar – Parenting is a procreational Ponzi scheme https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/ 35Z624TwfbSB58MnfOLSmVOW7Hm Sat, 07 Dec 2019 21:17:19 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.26 By: walruss111 https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7800 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:12 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7800 Fault in Benatar's argument….let's assume people stop having children and humanity goes extinct — but then intelligent life will likely evolve again from the non-sentient life that still survives on earth. Those new beings will again have to go through immense suffering just like our ancestors have to reach the level of our current civilization (which has relatively much lower levels of suffering). So it may be argued that there is actually a moral imperative to better or preserve the current human condition to prevent this from happening.

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By: john Ray https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7801 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:12 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7801 you right david .

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By: ArnoldTohtFan https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7802 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:12 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7802 It's been a week since I listened to the brilliant exchange between Sam Harris and David Benatar, and I just wanted to say that, even though I think David is 100% right about the quality of life being overwhelmingly negative, and that this negativity is more intense and enduring than the positivity, I remain convinced that there are some inconsistencies with his philosophy.

On his blog, Helian Unbound notes that anti-natalism is built on an inverted morality, in that it takes evolutionary mechanisms that we use to survive (compassion, empathy, and aversion to suffering), both as individuals and as a species, and uses them as the basis to advocate for our self-imposed extinction, which is what these mechanisms are meant to prevent in the first place. Maverick Philosopher has attempted to solve this dilemma, with some success.

I agree with Harris that it's a blatant double standard for Benatar to apply an experiential mode of argumentation for one scenario ("people who aren't born aren't deprived of pleasure") and an abstract, non-experiential mode for the other scenario ("absence of suffering is good even if there's nobody to appreciate it").

I guess Benatar could say that, if it really is a double standard, then we are not justified in our practice of mercy killing when it comes to deformed fetuses or euthanasia for people who wish to end their lives, since the deformed fetus and the depressed person won't benefit. But then all that leaves us with is the option to allow the deformed fetus to be born, to allow the depressed person to go on living against their will, which would of course be experientially bad. It's all very paradoxical. Such is life, I guess.

I also wish to highlight the problems with some of Benatar's most oft-repeated sentiments. "You can't have a child for that child's sake" is true, but it is equally true that you cannot not have a child for that child's sake. "Non-existent people cannot offer consent to being born" is true, but they also cannot withhold consent. And as for his analogy about absent life on other planets, it occurs to me that we aren't constantly rejoicing about the absence of suffering on Mars.

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By: VeganHamstress46 https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7775 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:11 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7775 Both choices, to breed or not to breed, are selfish, they are both made by the chooser, for their own benefit and interests. I prefer not to breed and do my best to fulfill my own desires while doing the least amount of harm, rather than breed another human and bring them into suffering, making them suffer, and myself suffer, having to care for another person in addition to myself for the rest of my life. Breeding is just nonsensical and self sabotaging, and as already stated, harmful to the bred, who couldn't give consent. Round and round it goes on and on and on and on

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By: Pete Alder https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7776 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:11 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7776 This experience we call Life is nothing but a cruel demonic experiment. It's like a really strenuous physical and emotional examination.

Actually CHOSING to bring children into this experiment is tantamount to child abuse.

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By: Pete Alder https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7777 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:11 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7777 In Month Python's 'Life of Brian' the song at the end when the criminal is on the cross he sings "When you think of it, life's a piece of shit."

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By: Michael Shannon https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7778 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:11 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7778 Life's an itch we occasionally get to scratch.

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By: Stirner's Retrowave https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7779 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:11 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7779 Parenting is actually much worse than a ponzi scheme. Deconstruct it down to its roots and it turns out to be nothing more than exploitative animal husbandry.

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By: Brandi Smith https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7780 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:11 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7780 I agree with him 100%.

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By: Celestial Teapot https://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7781 Wed, 20 Feb 2019 01:28:11 +0000 http://parentingbookstore.com/david-benatar-parenting-is-a-procreational-ponzi-scheme/#comment-7781 I'm 62, it's not going to get better, and potentially it's going to be very bad indeed. Given the global dimming scenario, the sensible thing to do is plan a peaceful death, not with a view of putting that plan into action, but with the comfort of knowing it's there.

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